Transcript
[0:01] The rental market is deteriorating very
[0:03] quickly. And in this video, you'll learn
[0:05] every single detail you need to know if
[0:07] you have a rental property, if you're a
[0:08] renter and you're looking to negotiate,
[0:10] or you're even looking to consider
[0:12] buying an investment property in today's
[0:14] market. Here I've got a special guest
[0:15] with us, Blakeley. Blakeley, let's jump
[0:17] into the data real quickly. What is so
[0:20] different today from what happened, you
[0:23] know, the last goound? Well, we are back
[0:25] into the accidental landlord world. What
[0:29] does that mean? Interest rates have gone
[0:31] up. The the mass COVID migration, I
[0:34] feel, is over. And we've had several
[0:37] owners who have been called back to work
[0:38] in places like Connecticut, New York,
[0:40] Texas, California, etc. who, you know,
[0:43] bought their dream home with the idea of
[0:45] working remote and have been called back
[0:47] into uh the office
[0:50] and they're they're forced to rent. the
[0:52] homeowners who can't sell, maybe they
[0:54] bought at the, you know, height of their
[0:56] beginning of and they, you know,
[0:58] overpaid for those homes at the time
[1:00] because of the mass exodus to Florida.
[1:03] They're now in a position where they're
[1:04] having problems moving them and they're
[1:06] sitting on empty homes for 6 months, 7
[1:08] months, 8 months, can't sell them. Well,
[1:12] do I lose $3,000 a month for mortgage
[1:14] payment or do I lose, you know, $800 a
[1:18] month and rent it out and take an $800 a
[1:20] month loss? So that that's what I'm
[1:21] seeing right now. So you're seeing a lot
[1:23] of owners unable to sell their house
[1:25] because the markets change drastically
[1:27] and then they turn them into rentals.
[1:28] Yes, we have well and it's kind of crazy
[1:30] because we even have long-term owners
[1:31] who are like, I just got to get out of
[1:33] this, you know, this real estate while I
[1:34] can. They're kicking good tenants out.
[1:37] They're sitting on an empty property for
[1:38] 6 months because let's let's be honest,
[1:40] you know, realtors are they're
[1:41] salespeople or you realtor and they're
[1:43] promising these owners, you know, uh the
[1:45] moon. uh owners kick out good tenants
[1:48] and then they've had six months of
[1:49] vacancy turn cost, prep cost, paint
[1:51] cost, you know, and then they come
[1:53] crawling back and my house won't sell. I
[1:55] need to rerent it. Well, your tenants
[1:57] that were paying $2,400 a month and now
[2:00] the comps are $2,100 a month. Wow. It's
[2:03] dropping that fast. Yeah, absolutely. I
[2:05] mean, we went up almost 30% during So,
[2:08] you know, it was uh it was all uh all
[2:10] fat, you know, it was all all gravy, all
[2:12] all uh all icing. And now it's uh you
[2:15] know there's a correction. Yeah,
[2:16] absolutely. So, let's dig into that
[2:18] correction. It sounds like sellers are
[2:19] sort of panicking now. They're panic
[2:21] selling. They're panic get kicking their
[2:23] tenants out to try to get out of the
[2:25] market as fast as possible because we
[2:26] can all see the data, especially here in
[2:28] Florida. It's pretty clear with the
[2:29] direction we're headed into. So, this is
[2:31] the Northeast Florida Association of
[2:33] Realtors MLS rental market data. This is
[2:36] the number of active listings across our
[2:38] city. There's 1817. Now, back in the
[2:41] day, you know, during the 2020 through
[2:44] 2022, Blakeley, what did it look like?
[2:46] Were there any rentals available? I
[2:49] mean, very few. I think I think vacancy
[2:51] was 2 or 3%. Yes. You know, uh, you
[2:55] know, now you're closer to 10%, 8 to 10%
[2:59] vacancies. Now, and also, and I like how
[3:02] your slide here says does not tell the
[3:03] real story. You know, let's be let's be
[3:05] transparent here. That's MLS data. Yes.
[3:08] Now, I've been in the property
[3:10] management world for 20 years. Half of
[3:12] my friends who own property management
[3:13] companies don't put their rental
[3:15] listings in MLS. So, all those vacancies
[3:17] and all those available properties are
[3:19] not reflected. And then you factor in
[3:21] the do-it-yourself landlords that are
[3:23] also not in the MLS data. So, that that
[3:25] number is much higher. Yeah. You know,
[3:27] we were going through some numbers
[3:28] before this call and you know,
[3:30] self-managed is 70 to 75% and
[3:33] professionally managed is 25 to 30%. So
[3:35] the inventory could easily be, you know,
[3:37] double or even triple that. This also
[3:39] doesn't include all the multif family
[3:42] apartment listings that are competing
[3:43] with the single family. And we'll dig
[3:44] into that data. So hang on here. Now, if
[3:46] you're seeing a rent decline in your
[3:48] market, go ahead and drop a comment and
[3:50] share with us what market you're in and
[3:51] how much rent prices have come down. But
[3:53] here's the thing. The vast majority of
[3:55] single family rentals are owned by
[3:57] individual investors, right? These are
[3:58] called mom and pop landlords who manage
[4:00] the property themselves to reduce cost,
[4:02] right? They don't want to pay a property
[4:03] manager the 8 to 10% whatever it is for
[4:06] them to go get the uh the tenant for
[4:08] them and manage the day-to-day
[4:09] activities. You know, making sure the
[4:10] lawn is mowed, making sure the repairs
[4:12] are getting done, if the refrigerator
[4:13] breaks down. Now, these larger
[4:15] portfolios, typically 10 plus
[4:16] properties, they're the ones that use
[4:18] the professional property management
[4:20] like very commonly because it makes
[4:22] sense from an economy as a scale
[4:24] perspective. Now, institutional
[4:25] ownership, these are like the big
[4:27] players. American Homes for Rent,
[4:29] Progress Homes, Invitation Homes, where
[4:31] it's owned, the property management is
[4:33] owned by those large firms themselves,
[4:36] and those are less than 5% of the
[4:38] market. The estimates are actually about
[4:40] 3 to 4% of the market is now owned by
[4:42] institutional investors. So, we saw them
[4:44] gobble up tons of properties, Blakeley,
[4:46] especially here in Jacksonville. They're
[4:48] buying 40 to 50 homes. each one of those
[4:50] institutions, you know, between 2012 all
[4:53] the way up to 2022 when they kind of
[4:55] looked at the numbers and said, "This
[4:56] doesn't make any sense anymore." And
[4:58] once rates started going up, the model
[5:00] stopped making sense. But this was a
[5:02] national rent study. Blakeley, I want to
[5:04] dig into this. Rents are coming down.
[5:06] So, this was we're already down 3 to 4%
[5:09] since August 2022 on a national level.
[5:12] The duration of the decline is 20 to 22
[5:15] months. The local standout, the one
[5:17] that's getting hit the most is Austin,
[5:19] Texas is overbuilt, multif family, tons
[5:21] of people relocating during the 2022 to
[5:23] 20 2020 to 2022 years. And the ongoing
[5:26] pressure is multifamily over building
[5:29] with amazing amenities, but the rent
[5:31] amounts are just so high that people
[5:33] can't afford it. A lot of people are
[5:35] complaining about that. Another study
[5:37] showed a 6% decline from since the since
[5:41] 2022. Again, new construction is being a
[5:44] big issue. the the places like Austin,
[5:46] Tampa, Nashville are seeing the biggest
[5:47] drops and what's interesting is that in
[5:50] the north the rents are actually rising,
[5:52] right? Because people are returning back
[5:53] to where they came from, Baltimore,
[5:55] Buffalo, Providence in the Northeast.
[5:57] What are you seeing on the ground,
[5:59] Blakeley, with your property management
[6:00] division in terms of how fast rents are
[6:03] dropping and how much? So, I would say
[6:06] 95% of our inventory is small mom and
[6:09] pop, one to three, one to three units
[6:12] investors. I myself own several
[6:15] properties. I just renewed three of
[6:16] mine. You know, they have been renting
[6:19] for close to $2,200 a month each for the
[6:21] last three years. And I just renewed all
[6:23] of them at 1950. Wow. Because yeah,
[6:26] that's where the market's at. We're
[6:28] getting a lot of um well well first and
[6:30] foremost, there's a handful of really
[6:32] good property management companies in
[6:33] Northeast Florida. I would like to
[6:35] consider us one of them. You know, that
[6:37] being said, and you run into this, I'm
[6:39] sure, in your world, uh, as well, on
[6:40] sales, there's a lot of property
[6:42] managers that promise these owners the
[6:45] price point they want to hit. They call,
[6:47] they're like, "Hey, John, I need my
[6:48] mortgage and taxes and insurance is
[6:50] $2,800. I need $2,200. I can't lose my
[6:52] property." And they promised them the
[6:54] world, they get them to sign the
[6:55] contract, they lock them in. But, you
[6:57] know, that same owner called us and
[6:58] we're like, "Yeah, your comps are
[7:00] $2,300. We're not going to like we're
[7:02] not going to, you know, blow smoke or or
[7:04] lie to you to get your business. We're
[7:05] going to be dead honest. This is what
[7:07] it's going to take. And then sure
[7:08] enough, we track all the lost deals that
[7:10] we don't get, of course. And they're all
[7:12] leasing for our comp what what we've
[7:14] told the people our comps were. So they
[7:16] they trusted these other companies. They
[7:18] list them at their $2,800 a month. They
[7:20] sit on it for 120 days and then end up
[7:23] leasing it to what, you know, we could
[7:25] have leased it for within 30 days. So
[7:27] we're seeing prices come down. We're
[7:29] we're really educating owners up front.
[7:31] like, you know, I I feel like it's
[7:33] shortterm paying for long-term gain. If
[7:36] you have the money for repairs and you
[7:38] have the money for the mortgage payment,
[7:40] you know, uh and you can tough out the
[7:43] next 3 years, four years, uh 10 years
[7:46] from now, you're going to be gold,
[7:48] right? But it's not a short-term play.
[7:50] It's not build to rent, buy a house, and
[7:53] cash flow $200, $300 a month. That those
[7:55] days are right now, those days are gone.
[7:58] put your money in tea bills and you know
[7:59] make 4.75%
[8:01] or hard money loan or you know whatever
[8:03] it is. So the ones who are really
[8:06] hurting single family is definitely
[8:07] better than than multi you know we do a
[8:09] lot of condos. Oh, these owners that are
[8:12] just between their condo fees, their
[8:14] insurance, their taxes, let's just say
[8:16] the Villa Medici, the Gardens of
[8:18] Bridgeampton, like all these heck, the
[8:20] peninsula downtown on the river. They're
[8:22] competing with new fancy multif family
[8:26] that's offering two months, three months
[8:28] free rent, no security deposit, no
[8:31] application fees, you know, pretty much
[8:34] move in at $0, get three months free in
[8:37] a big screen TV and call it a day,
[8:39] right? So those condo owners on the rent
[8:43] side are getting crushed. That is
[8:45] depressing. Yeah. And so the example you
[8:47] gave, you know, even 2400 to 2100, I
[8:50] mean, that's a 300 I mean that's more
[8:52] than 10% decline in rents just in the
[8:54] last year. And are you seeing them
[8:56] continue to drop or
[8:59] going to stabilize soon? I think we've I
[9:01] actually think we've stabilized on the
[9:02] drop. You know, the thing is is the
[9:04] owners don't understand. And they said,
[9:05] you know, well, 2 years you rented this
[9:06] house for me in 14 days at 2,800 and now
[9:09] you you're telling me it's going to take
[9:11] me 45 days at, you know, 2500 or 2400.
[9:16] Yeah. Because there's, you know, look at
[9:18] the mass amount of uh sales inventory
[9:19] that can't sell right now. Yes. And
[9:21] those owners again in their minds
[9:23] instead of losing 3,000 a month on a
[9:24] mortgage, they're going to lose five or
[9:26] 600, you know, being upside down and
[9:29] renting it out. And so for them, it's uh
[9:32] how long will it last? You know, I don't
[9:34] I don't know. I mean, it's uh I don't
[9:36] know how many months you can write $4
[9:37] and $500 checks on properties bought in
[9:40] the last four years before they just
[9:42] decide to short sale it if they have no
[9:44] equity and things like that. So, here's
[9:47] a question for the audience. Do you
[9:48] think rent prices in your area will go
[9:50] up or down in the next 12 months? Drop
[9:52] your guess in the comments. I think
[9:53] personally, Blakeley, I'm we're going to
[9:55] continue to see rents drop and I'll
[9:56] share with you why I think that is based
[9:58] on the multif family construction
[10:00] pipeline that we have locally. And so a
[10:02] lot of you in your market, you want to
[10:04] figure out, you know, how many active
[10:05] inventory, how much active inventory is
[10:08] there for sale, and how many of those
[10:10] will actually turn into a rental. How
[10:11] many are listed for rent but aren't even
[10:14] listed on MLS, which could be two to
[10:16] three times more. And you want to see
[10:18] what it's competing with new
[10:19] construction. So that's the biggest
[10:20] issue that we see here locally is the
[10:22] new construction. The the builders just
[10:24] overbuilt. They thought that the demand
[10:26] that we were having from the relocations
[10:28] would continue basically forever, I
[10:30] guess, is what their assumption was. So
[10:31] they just completely blew it out of the
[10:33] water with the number of housing starts.
[10:35] And so here and Tony will edit this
[10:37] video and I'll I'll show a video here,
[10:39] but there was a guy dancing on Beach
[10:40] Boulevard for these new apartments. And
[10:44] it's the Prescidium is what it's called.
[10:46] And they're offering three months free
[10:49] rent. Same exact thing that you were
[10:51] talking about, Blakeley, right? Like
[10:52] just walk in the door, sign a sign a
[10:54] lease, get them in there just to fill
[10:55] bodies into the to these units. And
[10:57] what's worse about it is on Hodgeges and
[11:00] San P and Butler, there's another
[11:02] apartment complex that's coming. That's
[11:04] another 400 units and it's in
[11:06] construction and it's who do they think
[11:08] they're going to rent to at these crazy
[11:10] $2,800 a month price for a 32 condo
[11:13] basically, you know, type of unit. It's
[11:16] out of control. I mean, the amenities
[11:17] are beautiful. It's in a good location,
[11:19] but people don't make that type of money
[11:21] from wages here to be able to support
[11:23] those type of payments. So, these are
[11:25] the issues that we're seeing right now.
[11:26] Relocation slowdown 80% since the peak.
[11:29] Overbuilding multif family. We're having
[11:31] an affordability crisis. Again, the
[11:33] wages here have not kept up with the
[11:35] price growth of the I see your head
[11:36] shaking up and down, right? The price
[11:37] the wages have not kept up at all with
[11:40] the rent amounts, right? And I was a
[11:42] landlord, too. Three times income is
[11:44] typically the stand requirement for
[11:46] approval on a rental. So, I mean, if
[11:48] it's 3,000 rent, I mean, you're going to
[11:50] have to make $9,000 a month. I mean,
[11:52] there's not many people in Jacksonville
[11:54] who make 9,000. I think the median
[11:55] family income is 6 65,000 for
[11:58] Jacksonville. So, you know, there is an
[12:00] affordability crisis here. And again, we
[12:02] tal we referenced this the short sales.
[12:04] People aren't able to sell their house.
[12:05] They have no equity in it. You know,
[12:07] they can't pay the transaction fees to
[12:09] the real estate agent. So, they decide
[12:10] to rent it out instead to try to pray
[12:12] that the market's going to get better,
[12:14] even though we're not seeing any real
[12:16] relief right now on interest rate side.
[12:18] So, overbuilding is the number one
[12:20] factor that I see. Uh Blakeley, I'd love
[12:22] to hear your opinion if you see the same
[12:23] thing, but there were 7,600 multif
[12:25] family units added in the last 12 months
[12:27] in Jacksonville. 11,000 units are under
[12:30] construction. So these are ones that
[12:31] already broke ground. And once they
[12:32] break ground, they have to finish the
[12:34] job because the bank finances in in
[12:36] place. And due to this, the multif
[12:38] family housing starts have now dropped
[12:40] 61% since the peak because they
[12:42] recognize, hey, we need to slow down.
[12:44] This the the relocations here are not
[12:46] happening. And the issue is, you know,
[12:48] Florida has a negative birth rate. So
[12:50] there's more people dying than being
[12:53] born in Florida. So the only way our
[12:55] state population grows is from people
[12:57] migrating here. And so the projects are
[12:59] cancelling and they're stalling out. So
[13:01] I had an owner. We have a a plan a
[13:03] multi-planned community. People here
[13:05] locally, if you're not locally, you
[13:06] understand. It's a it's a it's a
[13:08] beautifully planned community with 1.82
[13:10] $2 million homes on a crystal clear
[13:13] lagoon here in Florida in Northeast
[13:14] Florida. It's called Beachwalk.
[13:16] Beachwalk. Yeah. Okay. Now, I've had
[13:19] owners with homes and Beachwalk and
[13:20] we'll lease them if they're priced
[13:21] right. Like, we we are leasing monsters.
[13:24] We have in-person agents, you know,
[13:26] we're we're very tech driven, but
[13:28] personal we we have actual people show
[13:30] homes, which is rare now. But we had an
[13:32] owner said, "Well, you know, we said,
[13:34] well, there's two brand new complexes in
[13:36] Beachwalk." And like, well, that's not
[13:37] comparison. We're single family. And I
[13:39] said, "Well, let's just play devil's
[13:40] advocate for a minute. You're a family
[13:42] of three. Let's just say you're a family
[13:44] of three and you want to rent a $3,000
[13:47] home in Beachwalk and you got to pay
[13:49] first month security deposit. You're
[13:51] move, you know, moving fees, pet fees,
[13:53] whatever it may be. So, you're out right
[13:55] off the bat, let's just say $7,000,
[13:57] right? Same amenities, same school
[13:59] district, same grocery stores, or you
[14:01] can move to a luxury community with your
[14:03] family for 13 months or 14 months. Save
[14:06] six grand and see how the market shakes
[14:09] out. have a state-of-the-art fitness
[14:10] center, have a state-of-the-art pool,
[14:12] all these amenities. You I'm sorry, but
[14:14] as a as a family guy, if I can save my
[14:17] family six to eight grand for a year to
[14:20] live in an apartment complex a block
[14:22] over, that pays for a couple pretty nice
[14:24] vacations uh or other investments for my
[14:27] family. Why I see what happens with the
[14:28] market. So, people when they say, "Oh,
[14:30] multif family is not a competing
[14:31] product." I disagree. Absolutely it is.
[14:33] Yeah. For that kind of savings, it's a
[14:35] competing product. Absolutely. It's a
[14:37] competing property. And like you
[14:38] mentioned, the amenities are the same or
[14:40] better, you know, on these new
[14:41] construction communities. So here's the
[14:43] chart to summarize. Each area is
[14:45] definitely different around the country.
[14:46] So you want to figure out what's going
[14:48] on in your market. So this is the
[14:49] occupancy right now. So it fell from
[14:51] 94.5%
[14:53] nationally down to 90 to 92%. Blakeley
[14:56] almost exactly what you said. Vacancy 10
[14:58] is up to 10 to 13%, you know, up from 6
[15:01] to 7%. So, you know, 10% to 13% of their
[15:05] units are not currently filled and they
[15:07] have to fill them. That's why they're
[15:08] giving those, you know, three months
[15:09] free rent, two months free rent. Hey,
[15:11] walk in. New deliveries, pipeline
[15:13] change, you know, the start the starts
[15:15] are down and obviously asking rents are
[15:17] starting to decrease because this the
[15:19] owners are finally starting to realize
[15:21] that the market is actually different
[15:24] than it was just a few years ago. One of
[15:26] the things, Blakeley, that we talk about
[15:27] a lot is this affordability crisis and
[15:29] opportunity cost. So, if you're going to
[15:31] go out there and buy a home in 2025, it
[15:34] costs, according to the data, 43% more
[15:38] than renting. Are you seeing an increase
[15:40] in the number of people who want to rent
[15:42] because they can't buy? Well, I mean,
[15:44] absolutely. Uh I just uh I rented a home
[15:47] in a neighborhood by Palencia,
[15:49] Kensington, and they, you know, they
[15:50] rented the house, and they said, you
[15:52] know, this house would have cost me $800
[15:54] more a month to buy and to rent. Would
[15:57] the owner be interested in, you know,
[15:58] selling this? I'm the owner of that
[16:01] house, so no. But yeah, we definitely
[16:03] are seeing that. For us, it's really
[16:05] just an inventory. It's an inventory
[16:07] problem right now. And I I've been here
[16:08] before. I went through this before. Um
[16:11] because we've been in business 21 years,
[16:12] so I've seen this before. It's like
[16:14] patterns definitely repeat yourself.
[16:15] Although there's different reasons this
[16:17] time, but but we've been we've been here
[16:19] we've been here before. Yeah. And
[16:21] there's things that are actually worse
[16:22] this time around than last time. So last
[16:23] time, right, you had mentioned the
[16:25] strippers buying three houses and things
[16:27] like that. Now we have occupancy fraud,
[16:29] which the Fed has come out and basically
[16:31] said that 33% of people who purchased
[16:34] properties from 2020 to 2023,
[16:37] 33% of them said that they were going to
[16:40] occupy it as a primary and they didn't.
[16:42] They turned it into a rental. Do you
[16:44] believe that? That number sounds right
[16:46] to you? Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
[16:49] I I mean, even now we get owners who
[16:50] call us upset because they're being
[16:52] notified by the county that they've lost
[16:54] their homestead. Really? How does the
[16:56] county find out about that? No clue. No
[16:59] clue. Interesting. Reports them or I
[17:01] know that uh some of the some of the
[17:02] counties in Northeast Florida, I know
[17:04] that in St. John's County at one point
[17:06] in time, like 65% of all Airbnbs were
[17:09] unregistered. Wow. And they they
[17:12] deployed a software that scraped a lot
[17:14] of the you know, vacation rental listing
[17:15] websites to catch people and put them in
[17:17] compliance. But is it wouldn't be hard
[17:19] for the county to implement some type of
[17:21] a software program that literally just
[17:24] scrapes Zillow and if they see it for
[17:25] rent, they're like, "Okay, this owner is
[17:27] not living there anymore, right?" So,
[17:30] they lose their homestead. Yeah. And and
[17:32] the problem is when people are these are
[17:34] rental properties, they're more likely
[17:35] to walk away from them in the case of a
[17:38] decline than if it was a primary home,
[17:40] right? Because people have to have a
[17:41] place to live, but they don't have to
[17:42] have a rental. So, this is just like the
[17:44] risk is way higher than it's being let
[17:46] on. And that's on top of all the FHA and
[17:48] VA foreclosures that didn't happen over
[17:50] the last four years. There's a huge
[17:52] backlog over 15% delinquency that are
[17:55] coming to the market by the end of this
[17:57] year starting to trickle into the
[17:58] market. Foreclosures are starting to
[18:00] triple and then triple again from there
[18:02] from the from what we had previously
[18:04] just because we have all of this backlog
[18:07] of foreclosures that need to be
[18:08] processed through. And then you if you
[18:10] think about VA and FHA, you know, it's
[18:11] only 3.5% down for FHA and 0% down for
[18:15] VA. So, if they're underwater, if they
[18:17] bought in the last 2 to 3 years, and
[18:19] those, you know, that inventory will
[18:21] come onto the market or they'll try to
[18:22] rent these things, right, to to catch up
[18:24] on their payments if they can on the Oh,
[18:27] go ahead, Blake. You got something? If
[18:28] it's bad, if it's bad enough, I mean, I
[18:30] know owners that, you know, their
[18:32] mortgage payment is 3,600 bucks and they
[18:34] can go two doors down on the exact same
[18:36] floor plan and rent it for 29. Yeah. So,
[18:38] are the are the tenants renegotiating
[18:40] all their leases when they renew? The
[18:43] smart ones are. Yeah, the smart ones
[18:44] are. We literally got an email on Friday
[18:46] of last week. See, I'm proactive. We try
[18:48] and be proactive with owners and we're
[18:50] like, listen, we're not going to just
[18:51] try and give away owners money.
[18:52] Obviously, we every time a renewal is
[18:55] up, we we run a CMA. We run every single
[18:58] listing is personal. We don't want to
[19:00] leave money on the table for the owners.
[19:02] We do a new CMA. None of them are coming
[19:04] back at what they rented for, you know,
[19:06] a year or two, a year or two ago. So,
[19:08] our suggestion in that case to the owner
[19:09] is that if you're going to raise it,
[19:11] raise it very incrementally. We're
[19:13] talking 25 bucks, right? Because some of
[19:16] these comps that are coming back are 2
[19:18] 250 less, correct? Um, but you know, we
[19:21] got an email last week from a from a a
[19:23] tenant who literally just scrolled
[19:24] Zillow and found, you know, two or three
[19:26] homes in like a five block area of her
[19:30] uh Silverleaf community and said, "Hey,
[19:32] all these all these new ones are renting
[19:34] for this price and they're offering
[19:35] these incentives. Y can you guys, you
[19:37] know, keep my rent the same or drop it
[19:38] 100 bucks, whatever it was." So yeah,
[19:41] we're we're definitely seeing that.
[19:42] Ouch, that definitely hurts. And here's
[19:44] another thing on the opportunity cost is
[19:46] the here's the payment, right? So this
[19:48] is the payment tracker for the period of
[19:51] time. So you can see that the payment
[19:53] went all the way from like 1,500,
[19:56] you know, back in '08. Like now it's
[19:58] $2,800 a month. This is why I'm saying
[20:00] it's worse. Like the payments are just
[20:01] crazy. I mean, yes, we had in uh
[20:03] inflation and the Fed printed, you know,
[20:06] 30% of plus of the money supply over
[20:09] this period, but it's such an
[20:11] unsustainable amount because the wages
[20:13] haven't kept up and now the population
[20:15] is in debt. So, I mean, Blakeley, when
[20:16] you're seeing these tenants come
[20:17] through, is the credit quality like
[20:19] perfect, they have tons of cash to put
[20:20] down, or are they cashstrapped and they
[20:22] are loaded up with debt? What does that
[20:24] look like? Uh, no. I mean, we're we're
[20:26] pretty stringent with our
[20:27] qualifications. I mean, that's one of
[20:29] the keys to our success is, you know,
[20:31] I've always joke with my owners, one of
[20:32] the toughest jobs, just finding a good
[20:34] tenant. But we turned down, we're
[20:36] turning down a lot more applications.
[20:38] Yeah. More denial. We're not meeting the
[20:41] criteria. We even have, you know, talked
[20:44] to, you know, our council about actually
[20:46] um dropping that income requirement to
[20:49] two and a half times to just to make it
[20:52] work. try and get more people more which
[20:54] was that was the norm between 2008 and
[20:57] 2012 roughly was two and a half times uh
[21:01] the income but it slowly crept up that
[21:03] there's no set
[21:05] amount through through you know through
[21:07] every company but three times has been
[21:10] you know pretty much industry norm when
[21:11] you factor in their debt service and
[21:14] stuff like that but we we've talked
[21:15] about actually lowering it to to fill
[21:18] units to fill units wow so yeah monthly
[21:21] payments 90% increase in 5 years. So
[21:24] again, you can see even just 2020, 1,500
[21:26] down to up to 2,800. So this is just
[21:29] another way of looking at the same data,
[21:30] which is mind-boggling. So there's
[21:32] something called the 28% rule. So the
[21:36] rent the the amount of payment to
[21:37] purchase a property, the the payment
[21:39] that you must pay is going to be 28% of
[21:41] your income. Okay? So this you can see
[21:43] the formula there. Estimated medium
[21:45] median US house purchase by the median
[21:47] buyer front-end ratio. So, it should be,
[21:50] according to the 28% rule, a payment of
[21:53] $2,19.
[21:56] Now, it's $2,860
[21:59] because we saw the interest rates move
[22:00] up. So, we would need to see a drop on
[22:03] the payment side of $841
[22:07] to match this 28% rule, right? You you
[22:10] don't want to be spending your entire
[22:11] income on your rent or on your payment.
[22:14] And so, this is something that we see
[22:15] out there. This is for payment. This
[22:16] isn't for rent, but it's a really good
[22:19] indicator that hey, homes are overpriced
[22:22] and rents it's it's cheaper to rent and
[22:24] so a lot of people are going to prefer
[22:26] to rent than to buy at this point in the
[22:28] market cycle. So, what are tenants
[22:29] doing? We just talked about that
[22:30] renegotiating their leases. They're
[22:32] asking for free months rent, which is
[22:34] which is crazy to me. Are your owners
[22:37] okay with giving up, you know, these mom
[22:38] and pops like one to three months free
[22:40] rent to get I've always I've always
[22:42] viewed free rent as a gimmick. Okay.
[22:44] Okay. People want cheaper rent. So, if
[22:47] you're going to do a month free, then
[22:48] take it over your 12-month lease or your
[22:50] 13-month lease and just lower the
[22:52] monthly rent payment. That's effectively
[22:54] what we're doing. But, you know, just
[22:56] even I think outside of taxes and
[22:58] insurance, the biggest expense for real
[23:00] estate investors is vacancy. Yeah. So
[23:05] if you have to, you know, drop your
[23:07] rent, you know, obviously get a good CMA
[23:09] you whether it's your realtor or your
[23:10] property manager or you just do your own
[23:13] stuff on like rental meter, for example,
[23:15] is a free site rental meter to do comps.
[23:17] Just do your own comps. But if it, you
[23:20] know, if it cost you 100 bucks to keep
[23:21] that tenant in place, man, that's a lot
[23:22] cheaper than a turn cost and two months
[23:24] or three months of vacancy. You know,
[23:27] we're doing everything we can to keep
[23:28] tenants in place. Love it. So the power
[23:31] is with the tenants now and we think
[23:32] that will level off over time. So what
[23:35] are you doing differently to help
[23:36] landlords in this market versus the
[23:38] prior market that was super hot? What is
[23:40] like if you had to think of one thing
[23:42] that you do differently? We're being
[23:43] brut brutally honest with them first and
[23:45] foremost. Like this is the comp, this is
[23:47] the price. Well, I want $400 more a
[23:50] month. Okay. Well, there's a house five
[23:52] doors down that's three years newer with
[23:54] new floor and new paint. What makes your
[23:56] house? We're just educating these
[23:58] owners. Okay. Yeah. And we're also being
[24:00] very aggressive. So, a lot of companies
[24:02] have gone away from Inerson showings.
[24:05] I'm all about AI. I'm all about
[24:07] technology, but I do think the
[24:08] differentiator moving forward. I think
[24:12] the John and the Blakers are going to
[24:13] get sick of all the AI and all the
[24:15] companies are going to start sounding
[24:16] alike each other. And I think you're
[24:17] going to need that personal h hand touch
[24:20] and personal service. So, we have high
[24:22] technology, but we also have local live
[24:24] inerson agents. So, what we're doing
[24:26] differently is we're educating owners on
[24:29] the market and let's be aggressive. You
[24:31] know, we have a very se if you're not
[24:33] getting, you know, at least five to six
[24:35] leads a week, you're price too high.
[24:37] It's I mean, it's similar to real
[24:38] estate. It's the common sense, but the
[24:40] sellers just don't seem to capitulate as
[24:42] fast as you would think because is it
[24:44] just like they have a mental block? They
[24:46] just can't believe it or they don't
[24:48] trust you or what is it? They're just
[24:50] scared. That's part of it. And then you
[24:51] jump on jump on Zillow and look at some
[24:53] of the photos. I mean, it's your house.
[24:55] When you're renting your house, it's
[24:56] almost like a dating profile, right?
[24:58] First impression. You got to get them to
[25:01] to click. You got to get them to
[25:02] inquire. You got to get them to tour.
[25:04] You got to, you know, we're doing video
[25:05] tours and 3D tours and in inerson
[25:07] showings. You're being aggressive. Do
[25:10] the fresh paint. Make sure the carpets
[25:12] are clean. Throw some fresh mulch down.
[25:14] Give it some curb appeal. You want that
[25:15] house to stand out, but be aggressive on
[25:18] pricing. You know, we I listed a home in
[25:21] in an area by, you know, that we're
[25:22] familiar with called Kensington by
[25:24] Palencia. Yep. And it was my own
[25:26] personal home and I I my my stuff was
[25:28] handled just like all of our investor
[25:30] stuff. And I told my leasing team, $100
[25:33] a week reduction until it's leased and
[25:36] at least in 21 days. Per week. Think.
[25:40] Yeah. Wow. You know, wow. But again, if
[25:43] you do the math on the on the vacancy
[25:45] cost, right, owners, they they they want
[25:48] to pound you over that extra $200 a
[25:50] month. And I understand it's a lot of
[25:51] money, right? But if you sit empty on
[25:53] the on that property for five weeks,
[25:56] your $200 a month is gone. Yeah. So,
[26:00] let's get it leased. Let's get them in
[26:02] there right away and then, you know,
[26:04] keep them happy. and and a lot of a lot
[26:06] not to go down a bunny trail, but a lot
[26:09] of uh we have a 72% renewal rate, but
[26:13] there's two reasons for non-renewals,
[26:15] not with us, but with most companies,
[26:16] and that's obviously relocation, either
[26:18] upsizing, downsizing, family, job
[26:19] relocated, whatever. And then the the
[26:23] number two reason for for non-renewal is
[26:26] whether it's an individual owner or or a
[26:29] property manager is lack of repair. Wow.
[26:33] So, while you're trying to get three
[26:34] bids for your AC and your tenants
[26:36] cooking in 90° heat for 10 days with two
[26:38] small kids, right? Think they're going
[26:41] to renew their lease with you, right?
[26:43] Just fix the AC.
[26:45] So, keep them happy. Keep your existing
[26:47] tenants happy. Happy. Yeah. Treat them
[26:49] treat them like royalty. And that's been
[26:51] the opposite of the mentality of most
[26:52] people over the last few years. So, I'm
[26:54] I'm happy to see the tenants get their
[26:56] power back. But, if you own real estate
[26:58] right now, what should you do? Should
[26:59] you if you have a investment property
[27:02] and you're looking at the numbers, what
[27:04] should you do? I'll tell you briefly
[27:06] what I did, you know what I did with my
[27:08] portfolio and so let me actually go back
[27:11] here real quick. Tony, just cut that
[27:14] part out. So, if you own real estate and
[27:16] you're an investor, what should you do,
[27:17] Blakeley? Are should you try to sell it
[27:19] or should you just keep the tenant in
[27:21] place and ride it out? I mean, at this
[27:22] point, I wouldn't I wouldn't sell it. I
[27:25] wouldn't sell it. Uh I wouldn't keep the
[27:27] tenant in place. I mean, if you're going
[27:28] to sell the property, I mean, you could
[27:30] be out with your with, you know, with
[27:32] your sales commissions, with your turn
[27:34] cost, prep cost, vacancy. You may be out
[27:36] 20, 30 grand. It may be more financially
[27:39] advantageous for you to take that $200
[27:40] or $300 loss for 3 years, you know, and
[27:44] let things calm down and the market kind
[27:46] of clean up a little bit and then sell
[27:47] it. Yeah, absolutely. And I actually
[27:49] have an investment model if you guys
[27:50] want to look at that. And so, what's the
[27:53] issue you run across when trying to sell
[27:55] your rentals if they haven't? All right.
[27:56] So, we already dealt with that, so I'll
[27:58] uh Tony, take that part out as well. We
[28:00] can skip this one. Okay. So, Blakeley,
[28:03] this is really interesting, right?
[28:05] Because we've seen taxes go up, right?
[28:07] Non- primary homes, no homestead.
[28:10] Insurance has gone up 70% in the last 5
[28:13] years. The repair costs have skyrocketed
[28:15] to get roughly repair cost. 30% on the
[28:19] repair cost. Yeah. Even to get somebody
[28:20] to go to your house, they charge you
[28:21] like $200 just to drive a mile down the
[28:24] street. It's outrageous. The big
[28:26] misconception here is that so when COVID
[28:28] hit all the vendors and I love our
[28:30] vendors but let's talk about AC,
[28:31] plumbing, electrical, they all use COVID
[28:34] and supply as the reason to raise their
[28:35] rates 25 or 30%. Right? But when
[28:37] everything went back to normal, do you
[28:39] think those rates came back down?
[28:40] Absolutely not. You know, and we get
[28:42] these owners who are like, well, I want
[28:44] two quotes. I want three quotes. We
[28:46] don't do that. We have what we consider
[28:48] the best vendors in the market. And if a
[28:50] vendor, an AC vendor, a plumbing vendor,
[28:52] is driving around to seven or eight
[28:54] properties a day just doing quotes,
[28:56] labor, insurance, gas, vehicle lease,
[28:59] etc., they make no money. The days of
[29:01] the free quotes are almost gone. That's
[29:03] right. Yeah. The service call fees are
[29:05] sometimes more expensive than the actual
[29:08] fix itself, which is wild. And I agree.
[29:10] And I agree with the vendors, by the
[29:12] way. Yeah. Like because they get quoted
[29:14] to death with no jobs and they're going
[29:16] to be out of business pretty quickly.
[29:17] Yeah. You can't run around without any
[29:18] income coming in. So this is an
[29:20] interesting thing. So investor purchases
[29:22] are down 62.8%
[29:25] from the peak. So this is tracked by
[29:27] Redfin. So this is from Q2 of 2021 to Q1
[29:31] 2025. Housing markets with biggest drop
[29:33] in investor purchases. Jacksonville
[29:36] part. I mean so obviously we're seeing
[29:37] rents coming down. The property prices
[29:39] have come up you know more than 50% in
[29:42] just a few years. So, the numbers no
[29:45] longer make sense on paper, especially
[29:47] when we just talked about, you know,
[29:48] taxes, insurance, repairs, all this
[29:51] stuff. It doesn't make sense to own a
[29:53] property if you didn't lock in your low
[29:54] rate or you bought, you know, in the
[29:56] last two to three years. They're
[29:58] underwater significantly. Blakeley,
[30:00] you're mentioning up to $800 a month in
[30:03] some situations that people are losing,
[30:05] you know, by having it rented out. And
[30:07] obviously, if they're hiring a
[30:08] professional property manager, too,
[30:09] they're paying paying out there, too.
[30:11] It's it's brutal out there. Actually,
[30:13] I'm surprised it's not down more than
[30:15] 62.8%.
[30:16] Because I'm also seeing issues with
[30:18] Airbnbs, right? Airbnbs are starting to
[30:20] hit vacant. Everybody thought it was
[30:22] sexy on Instagram to go have an Airbnb
[30:25] and manage it from home. It's something
[30:26] they could do from home and now they're
[30:28] paying the price from buying, you know,
[30:30] at these crazy prices. So, Blakeley,
[30:32] leave us this with with this. What's the
[30:34] advice for single family rental owners
[30:36] today? what should they do because of
[30:38] the market deteriorating and you know
[30:40] potentially deteriorating a lot more
[30:41] into the future as well as we see this
[30:43] pipeline of multif family come on the
[30:44] market I think that they have to
[30:47] obviously treat the tenants like gold
[30:50] offer some kind of a move incentive be
[30:52] more pet friendly we get so many owners
[30:54] and they're like I don't want more pets
[30:55] in my house why respectfully I'm I'm a
[30:58] dad right and when my son was three he
[31:00] did a lot more damage than a chihuahua
[31:02] would do right so you know be more open
[31:04] to and then we have owner who say, "I
[31:06] don't want roommates." You have to be
[31:07] more open and more flexible. I tell
[31:10] people all the time regarding the pets.
[31:11] 80% of American homes have a pet. Wow.
[31:14] So, you're literally going to take 80%
[31:15] of the market eyes off of your property
[31:18] by not allowing pets. That that's
[31:19] bonkers to me. Making sure that you
[31:22] follow, you know, whether you're doing
[31:23] it yourself or you're working with a
[31:25] professional company, follow the advice.
[31:27] If they're telling you it needs fresh
[31:28] paint, if they're telling you some saw
[31:29] needs replaced, if they're telling you
[31:30] it needs new mulch, they're telling you
[31:32] the driveway needs pressure washed, you
[31:35] may think, "Oh, I can't afford the
[31:36] $800." But two weeks or a week and a
[31:39] half of vacancy would would have other
[31:41] than that. Yeah. Would have would have
[31:43] covered that. So, get your property in
[31:45] good shape. Doesn't need to be brand new
[31:46] or perfect, but some people want to
[31:48] people want to feel proud of what they
[31:50] rent. That's their home. They're going
[31:52] to be raising their kids in there.
[31:53] They're going to be celebrating
[31:54] birthdays and anniversaries. They're
[31:55] going to have their want to have their
[31:57] in-laws over for barbecues. They want to
[31:59] be proud of where they live. So, make it
[32:01] presentable for them. Make it a make it
[32:03] a home that they're proud of. And by the
[32:04] way, they'll take better care of it.
[32:06] Amen. That's really good advice. So,
[32:08] I'll tell you Blakeley why I sold my
[32:10] rentals, right? So, I had over 200 plus
[32:12] units, multif family and single family
[32:14] properties, and I underwrote every
[32:16] individual property. So, I think every
[32:18] property is different. It's unique in
[32:20] terms of its age, its condition, its
[32:22] location, everything like that. But the
[32:24] one thing in common with all of my
[32:25] properties that I sold between 2022 and
[32:28] 2024 once I saw the Fed was raising
[32:30] rates in 20 in March 2022 that spooked
[32:33] me and I knew that when rates go up,
[32:35] prices come down and I saw the amount of
[32:37] building that was going around my
[32:38] community. So I sold literally
[32:40] everything. The only house I have left
[32:41] is my primary home and you know that was
[32:43] my full business was was having these
[32:45] rentals and having all them and doing
[32:46] flips and stuff like that. My return on
[32:49] equity was guess what my return on
[32:51] equity was on my rentals. Blakeley 30%.
[32:54] 3%. I had built so much equity up in the
[32:57] home and the cash flow was so low
[33:00] because the I mean it was just it was
[33:03] crazy. When I talk about return on
[33:04] equity, it's the equity sitting in the
[33:05] home at the time of market value, not
[33:07] when of purchase. Just to be clear on
[33:09] that. Yeah, that's why it's different.
[33:10] But 3% is not enough, right? I can go
[33:12] buy a treasury and get 5% no risk. So
[33:15] why in the world would I hold my rental
[33:17] if I didn't think there would be
[33:18] long-term appreciation in my market?
[33:20] It's definitely not going to come from
[33:21] cash flow and things keep breaking,
[33:23] right? Like one AC unit broken would
[33:26] erase the cash flow for the entire year
[33:28] or one turn for the year would erase all
[33:30] the cash flow. It wasn't worth it. So, I
[33:32] sold them all and I turned it into a
[33:33] private lending fund for agents to do
[33:35] fix and flips. And that has taken off
[33:37] and been so much more profitable. I
[33:39] actually now get 15 to 20% interest on
[33:42] my fix and flips, which is just a
[33:44] phenomenal return versus doing that. So,
[33:47] I'm a fan of actually selling rentals.
[33:48] right now you are past the peak as
[33:50] Blakeley said. It's like it's like at
[33:51] this point you're past the peak. You're
[33:53] kind of locked in or else you're going
[33:54] to be chasing the market down for the
[33:56] next couple months. It might make sense
[33:58] to hold on if it cash flows and it makes
[34:00] sense um and it's in pretty good
[34:02] condition. Estimate the repairs, right?
[34:03] Going into the future, estimate in the
[34:06] area like how much new construction is
[34:07] around me that's going to compete with
[34:08] this because not every area is going to
[34:10] drop 10 to 15%. Right? It's usually the
[34:12] areas where they're overbuilding like
[34:14] crazy and and the demand is is less,
[34:17] right? Because you look at rentals in
[34:18] like Neptune Beach, there's nowhere left
[34:21] to build. Those are those rent right
[34:22] away. Those are high demand areas with
[34:24] people who are wealthy that will buy. So
[34:26] each property is completely different.
[34:28] If you want to send your property to
[34:29] either me or Blakeley, we can take a
[34:30] look at it. Blakeley's got a tremendous
[34:32] team over there. I think you have like
[34:34] what 800 units under management or
[34:36] something like that. We just crossed a
[34:38] thousand. Congrats. That's awesome. Just
[34:41] crossed a thousand. And uh yeah, I mean,
[34:43] you know, great school districts. I have
[34:45] a property that I'm breaking even on per
[34:46] month, breaking even on per month, but
[34:48] I'm not really. I mean, if you factor in
[34:50] historical
[34:52] uh appreciation, you know, 3% and then
[34:55] the tenants paying down almost $400 of,
[34:57] you know, principal a month for me as
[34:59] well. So, you know, while I'm not
[35:01] putting cash in my pocket every month,
[35:02] you know, it is it is uh it is
[35:05] definitely uh you know, adding value.
[35:07] Yeah, absolutely. So, if you want to
[35:09] underwrite the deal, I have a
[35:10] underwriting model. I can send it to you
[35:12] if you comment and you email me. My
[35:14] email's down in the description of the
[35:16] video. Let me know. Subscribe to my
[35:18] Substack and I'll go ahead and send you
[35:20] a an underwriting model that you can
[35:22] take a look at. I'm happy to take a look
[35:23] at it with you. I know Blakeley is as
[35:25] well. So, Blakeley, this was awesome.
[35:27] Thank you for today. And and we do no
[35:29] sales here. We're only rental. We're
[35:31] only rentals 247 365. Rentals, rentals,
[35:34] rentals. We live and breathe it. So, I
[35:36] love it. I love it. So, we do sales over
[35:38] here primarily like 99% of sales. My
[35:41] company does about 1,800 transactions
[35:43] per year on the sales side. So, if you
[35:45] need help selling your home or if you're
[35:47] around the country looking for a top
[35:48] agent to help you, right, 80% of agents
[35:50] are horrible. They're just they don't
[35:52] know what they're doing. They sell one
[35:53] transaction a year. Don't get stuck with
[35:55] them. If you need to get in touch with
[35:56] one of the top people around the
[35:57] country, even if you're not in Florida,
[35:59] let me know. I have a huge network
[36:00] across the country because I've been in
[36:02] this industry for quite some time.
[36:03] Blakeley, thank you. You're a gentleman
[36:05] and a scholar. See you next time.